The Collapse of Complex Societies

New Studies in Archaeology, Book 8

By: Joseph A. Tainter

Narrated by: Brian Arens

Length: 10 hrs and 26 mins

Publisher's summary

Political disintegration is a persistent feature of world history. The Collapse of Complex Societies, though written by an archaeologist, will therefore strike a chord throughout the social sciences. Any explanation of societal collapse carries lessons not just for the study of ancient societies, but for the members of all such societies in both the present and future. Dr. Tainter describes nearly two dozen cases of collapse and reviews more than 2,000 years of explanations. He then develops a new and far-reaching theory that accounts for collapse among diverse kinds of societies, evaluating his model and clarifying the processes of disintegration by detailed studies of the Roman, Mayan, and Chacoan collapses.

PLEASE NOTE: When you purchase this title, the accompanying PDF will be available in your Audible Library along with the audio.

©1988 Cambridge University Press (P)2022 Echo Point Books & Media, LLC

Indispensable

This book is not light reading but nonetheless critically important. Mr. Tainter points out several aspects of the collapse of complex societies that I hadn't given any consideration at all. The benefits of the collapse for one and the vacuum required is another. These considerations make the world's current situation a bit more dire than previously appreciated.

A phenomenal way to become familiar with societal collapses

An engaging read/listen- probably one of the better audiobooks for material that can sometimes be a little dry.

This book is a phenomenal way to become familiar with collapse, what it is, when it’s happened, and why it has. Arguably a bit heavier on the gray matter than something similar like ‘Collapse’ by Jared Diamond

I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend this to anyone

A Must Read

Understanding deminishing returns on investment in complexity is essential. It's the best way to maintain a complex society. This book explains it with Feynman like flair.

Foundational text that’s still relevant!

Tainter did a great service to the study of history, economics and archeology (ancient history) by cutting through centuries of nonsense about the collapse of civilizations and combining disparate ideas into a single theory. He systematically shows how systems collapse is based in the simple, universal concept of marginal cost exceeding marginal benefit. He also shows how other theories are either a subset of the overarching marginal cost model, or he correctly banishes romantic (but goofy) concepts that civilizations just get too old and then “give up.”

The book feels ever so slightly dated for 2 reasons:
1) it was written was ‘88 and so refers to the Soviet Union and the Club of Rome (their ideas still keep popping up though!). Some of the impending problems he refers to have been largely solved (which I suppose goes to strengthen his argument that successful societies find solutions to their problems).
2) this work was so impactful that it has led to A LOT of great research since its release! Some of the discussion about specific civilizations have come a long way in 34 years, and the details are much better understood. Studies into economics, trade, climate, agriculture, demography, warfare, language, etc. since the original publication shine so much more light on these civilizations than was available at the time.

Regardless, understanding Tainter creates the framework to understand the similarities and differences between collapsing civilizations and allows those same principles to be applied today. Having a scientific approach to systems collapse is still VERY important (I keep hearing some of the nonsense reasons for collapse that he disproves). And even within the text, certain doomsayers were predicting our own collapse by now (hint: it didn’t happen).

Authors from Jim Diamond to Peter Zeihan owe a lot to Tainter, and if you want to understand their work, get this book!

A must read

This is a must read for any decision making or technological development in modern society