Worlds at War

The 2,500-Year Struggle Between East and West

By: Anthony Pagden

Narrated by: John Lee

Length: 20 hrs and 36 mins

Publisher's summary

In the tradition of Jared Diamond and Jacques Barzun, prize-winning historian Anthony Pagden presents a sweeping history of the long struggle between East and West, from the Greeks to the present day.

The relationship between East and West has always been one of turmoil. In this historical tour de force, a renowned historian leads us from the world of classical antiquity, through the Dark Ages, to the Crusades, Europe's resurgence, and the dominance of the Ottoman Empire, which almost shattered Europe entirely. Pagden travels from Napoleon in Egypt to Europe's carving up of the finally moribund Ottomans - creating the modern Middle East along the way - and on to the present struggles in Iraq.

Throughout, we learn a tremendous amount about what "East" and "West" were and are, and how it has always been competing worldviews and psychologies, more than religion or power grabs, that have fed the mistrust and violence between East and West. In Pagden's dark but provocative view, this struggle cannot help but go on.

©2008 Anthony Pagden (P)2008 Tantor

Critic reviews

"An accessible and lucid exploration of the history of the East-West split....Fans of Jacques Barzun and Jared Diamond will be most impressed by Pagden's big picture perspective." ( Publishers Weekly)

A MASTERPIECE

Pagden's outstanding work! One of the greatest history books - even for those who don't like history - you'd be surprised by the amount of knowledge gained. A MASTERPIECE, this book is a treasure!

Excellent historical survey

This is a hugely worthwhile survey of east-west relationships if, like me, you didn't specialize in "Oriental Studies". This seemed a balanced political history overall. Gigantic chucks of information are jettisoned in any history; more so one encompassing 2,500 years. Of the periods and traditions I've studied, I can attest that the author covered most well enough to maintain the narrative without sacrificing too much detail. There's nothing about the Viking expansion into the region, and the Russians get short shrift. Never mind. Pagden did a brilliant job at constructing a fascinating, coherent, and challenging essay on the ties and fractures in euro-asian relationships.

I had just finished this a day before President Obama's Cairo speech. Pagden's history and analysis gave me background enough to hear nuances I would have never heard.

Oh, and the narration is excellent as well.

Great book, to be taken with a grain of salt

Sure, the author's viewpoint is militantly secular. That's why it's so very funny to read comments urging him to go to "the source", i.e. the Bible.
For anyone not offended by secularism, it's a great book, extremely well read, with just a few issues that one must take with a grain of salt: his implied definition of what is East/West, his attachment to certain cultures at the expense of others (Russia and China, some have argued), and a sometimes strained polarization of the two notions. But it is all in all a great discussion of history; it can only do you good :)

An excellent introduction

Any additional comments?

The author provides a clear history of the clash of civilizations, east versus west. It would be impossible to cover all of the detail for such a lengthy timeline, and the author provides just the right amount to keep the listener interested in what comes next. Of greater value is the perspective provided as to the motivations of the various conflicts. These underpinnings are often lost in history books that merely recite facts and dates, yet it is imperative to understand them if one is to comprehend contemporary affairs. I'd strongly recommend this to anyone who is interested in gaining a wider understanding of the current conflict between western nations and the middle east.

Informative not great

Learned a lot re historical interaction of cultures of Europe and Mideast, particularly religion, wars, politics...though audio book not great for absorbing unfamiliar person and place names. A main point is that Muslim conflict in current times is based on version of Islam that does not separate church and state, while "West" does separate. Note that book's notion of East and West excludes anybody not within 1000 miles of the Mediterranean, except a few mentions of the US towards the end. Excludes most of Asia, Africa, the Americas, Oceania.

An Excellent Subset of Political History

Pagden's work is an extraordinary overview of a significant subset of Earth's political history. I wish had I had consumed it as required reading early in my life.

Sometimes hard to follow but then so is history

Any additional comments?

This is a long and complex story that is told in a long and complex way. Pagden didn't have me in mind when he was writing it I'm sure; if he did he would have used smaller words. To really understand it the way it is written would take a masters of English but never the less it's a good story and I'm glad I pushed through.... twice. Just keep a dictionary at hand if you're a literary nuffer like me.

a must read for history buffs

clarifies the history of the divisions between the cultures and religions of the East and West and how they are affecting current politics

Four legs good, two legs bad

The author's make-believe take on the East excludes India, barely mentioned, and China and Japan, mentioned even less. By the East he means the Persian Empire and the Islamic middle east. He has a fantasy that the history of the world can be described by the "battle line drawn" between Europe and the East over 2300 years ago.

The author is never at a wont for describing the East in generic negative terms. I'll bet he referred to directly or quoted others that the East is "feminine" more than 10 times. What does it mean when a culture is feminine? He never tells me, but he clearly uses that as a negative trait. Besides, why would it be bad for a culture to be feminine or good if it were masculine? The East, according to him (or the ones he quotes favorably) are lover of boys and are disordered and not for liberty. Even when he talks about the advances made under Islamic civilizations during the West's dark ages, he just dismisses them by saying since they were ruled by such disordered leaders there indigenous populations got to flourish because they were poorly led and got to be themselves because of the poor leadership, whatever.

Western Civilization History is usually told by looking within and very little of the between is told. The author does tell the story by focusing only on the between providing the listener with insights into the development of the West which is not usually told in such great detail in survey of history books. That's the feature of the book I liked and it's why I tolerated the author's comic book characterizations of the "East", but in the end his characterizations of Persia and Islam sounded like the pigs in Animal farm repeating a mantra over and over that "four legs good, two legs bad" or in his case "Western Christians good, East Muslim bad".

Life is too short to read books that have such an obvious silly take on world history and I would recommend a good book on World History instead such as "The History of the World" by Roberts instead of this comic book characterization.

Hated it

Pagden admits his bias in the first few sentences of the book. I found his analysis extremely flawed due to those biases. A history writer should interpret actions and motivations in the context of the era under review, and at least make an effort to avoid letting their personal bias pollute their interpretations. I think Pagden failed on both counts.